decision. you think of a lot of different things, and that is why i said that, but it has to be a long-term because you don't want the person looking for another job. >> because then they could become corrupt. >> don't look for another job but think about when your time is up. justice breyer, we might all relate to that. we have shared the entire thing for you on msnbc.com/summit, that the entire free interview. you'll see that on youtube as well and you can watch and join. otherwise, i will see you at 6:00 eastern tomorrow. "the last word" is next. >> we are joined by phone by the chief police, who's been in touch with nypd tonight. i have been watching, people

are watching, and i have been watching and hoping for the professionalism of the police force in their response. they didn't volunteer or ask to be there, we asked them to be there and what we have seen so far from what the camera can detect has been no police brutality, no overreaction by the police, and cooperation by the students who are being arrested. >> well, let me say this, to take into account, nypd has been preparing for this. this is not new to that city, dealing with these situations, and part of the reason for the administration there at columbia , moving in in the way nypd did, they were well prepared.

they've been preparing for this for some time. they have been relying on intelligence, i'm sure. they had a plan and we saw that. so far, it has been without incident. those officers, i am quite sure, are only using the necessary force, but i think we are in a situation where we are hopefully seeing this come to an end, because it should have come to an end, this week, and it appears that nypd and this leadership is doing a great job in terms of working with the university and continuing to bring this to a peaceful end. >> it's a big difference between these protests, this spring, and what we saw in 1968

and during the vietnam war, these protests are much smaller and much more scattered. we have 6000 colleges in united states of america, approximately 48 of them have seen some demonstrations, most of them are small demonstrations . the real story of american college life this spring has been more than 99% of students have been going to classes, uninterrupted in more than 99% of colleges. that's a perspective people don't get when the camera aims at what's happening on any particular university. as of course, we all understand, this campus gets a lot of media attention as it's located in the media capital of the world and nypd has that pressure, tonight, knowing that the world is watching what they are doing. >> absolutely, but i think in addition to that, if we go back

to 1968, and the much earlier years, where they had these different communication mediums compared to what we have, today, it's a very different time. around the country and around the world, we see what is going on. i think tonight, again, there on the campus of columbia, has showed the community that prepared themselves and the folks in and around that community. everyone, i think, wants to see this come to an end and i wouldn't be surprised if some of these protesters want it to be coming to an end. i think it's a real demonstration of how far we have certainly come since 1968,

but hopefully there's an opportunity now for the university to sit down and for both parties involved to talk and find a solution to these complex issues that will continue to face us every day. >> thank you. we will continue to monitor this story, as you see in the shots, if there is anything ramping up. it's always shocking to see a police presence like this on an american campus, going in to deal with protest. normally, in this country, when you see a police presence like this on a campus, it's because a mass murderer is loose on that campus. that is not what has happened tonight. it has been, so far, a peaceful protest which included occupying a building, and occupying the building was an action that provoked the university to decide they had

to call local police to try to remove the protesters from the building. everything we have seen so far indicates that protesters have been arrest did, leaving that building and leaving calmly. we will continue to follow what's happening at columbia as necessary. we are returning now to the news of the day. we are beginning with something very important that donald trump heard today, from the judge in his criminal trial. jail may be a necessary punishment. that is what judge merchan told donald trump today , and he said it in writing. the trial, the defendant began, as trial days frequently began, where the judge called housekeeping matters. one of them was trying to work something out with the sound

system to make it work better. another was a good news, bad news item for donald trump where the judge said that because the trial is proceeding ahead of schedule, the judge will cancel the court session scheduled for friday, may 17th, "mr. trump can certainly attend that date -- attend his son's graduation." the bad news for trump is that he may have to go to his son's high school graduation and that is the third housekeeping item on the judge's mind. he used less than one minute of time to announce his finding that donald trump is indeed guilty of contempt of court. the judge said, "the court finds that the people have met their burden of proof and demonstrated contempt. mr. trump is find $1000 on each -- i am handing down written decision copies for both sides. the details of the decision are in the written decision." and that was that, in the

courtroom. the judge then brought in the jury. in the seven pages describing donald trump's violations of the judge's order for bidding intimate comments, the judge decided donald trump violated his order nine times and find donald trump the maximum fine of $1000 for each of those violations. the judge noted the inadequacy of those fines in donald trump's case. the judge wrote "the judiciary law does not best the court with authority to craft an appropriate punishment when a $1000 fine will not achieve the intended purpose. while $1000 may suffice in most instances to protect the dignity of the judicial system, to compel respect for mandates and to punish the offender for disobeying a court order, it unfortunately will not achieve the desired result in those in this is where the contender can easily afford such a fine. in those circumstances, it would be preferable if the

court could impose a fine more commensurate with the wealth of the contender. in some cases, that might be a $2500 fine, in other cases it might be a fine of $150,000. because this court is not cloaked with such discretion, it must therefore consider whether in some instances, jail may be a necessary punishment. therefore, defendant is hereby warned that the court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate, under the circumstances, it will impose and incarcerate tory punishment." when the trial resumes, the first order of business is a hearing on four more alleged violation of the judge's gag order. the worst of those violations is donald trump saying in an interview last monday, "that jury was picked so fast, 95% democrats.

the areas mostly all democrat. you think of it as a, just a purely democrat area. it is a very unfair situation, that i can tell you." donald trump is under in order to not say a word about the jury, not a word, does not actually matter that what he said is a lie. donald trump has no idea how many democrats are on that jury or how many republicans might be on that jury. what we do note is that donald trump will be fined $1000 for saying that and what we don't know, you yet, is how many more of these violations will it take for the judge to consider jail a necessary punishment. 30 days is the maximum sentence the judge can issue for any one of these violations. if donald trump were sentenced to any time in jail, he would be like many of the criminal defendants who report for trials every day in that same courthouse while

living in jail, and rikers island, across the water from the airport. so, donald trump has never been closer to spending a night in jail then he is right now. the most important testimony today was given by the man who said, "i have a blockbuster trump story." keith davidson was trump's first lawyer. it was in his role as karen mcdougal's first lawyer that he texted the editor of the national enquirer, dylan howard, "i have a blockbuster trump story." the prosecutor, who has possession of those text messages, asked the witness to read the text that he sent to dylan howard. "i had a blockbuster trump story. what did you mean by that? sort of an entrie or teaser to dylan to let him know that i had, perhaps, an opportunity

for him. and what was the, generally's eking, and certainly without revealing client confidences, what was the opportunity about which you were contacting him? regarding the interaction between karen mcdougal and donald trump. what did mr. howard say, if anything, in response? talk first thing. i will get you more than anyone for it. you know why. what do you understand that to mean? that he would call me in the morning. what did you understand the rest of the text to mean? that, i don't know if i had a clear understanding at that time, but i knew that dylan's boss, david pecker, and mr. trump were longtime friends and had a former business relationship that david pecker published from magazine, and that at the time ami had announced, -- implied that they had endorsed mr. trump's candidacy. " that is why karen mcdougal's

lawyer believed the national enquirer would pay for her story to help donald trump's candidacy. that was the reason. until now, the reply was, "talk first thing, i'll get you anything, you know why." the why was that mr. trump's candidacy. the prosecutor asked him to read more. "did he cheat on millenia? who did you understand that to be referring to? donald trump. okay, next text, from whom? from dylan. okay. do you know if the affair was during his marriage? again, do you understand his to be a reference to donald trump? yes. and how did you respond? i really cannot say yet. sorry. is that because you didn't know or because you weren't prepared to discuss the details at that

point? it was because it was the latter, because i was not prepared to discuss the details at that point." keith davidson then entered negotiations with the national enquirer to score karen mcdougal's story. he arranged a meeting for karen mcdougal with dylan howard in the offices in california. "can you tell us the substance of what ms. mcdougall said about the nature of her interactions with mr. trump during this eating? i can summarize it. that's fine. ms. mcdougall alleged that she had had a romantic affair with donald trump some years prior. when you say romantic, does that include sexual? that is what she expressed. " >> that was the blockbuster story that was for sale to the national enquirer. she's a playboy magazine model who, in 1998, was playmate of the year. she said in interviews that she did not want her story to be

made public. keith davidson was able to use that story as leverage, to use the national enquirer to pay his client hundred $50,000 to "work" for the national enquirer or its parent company by occasionally, maybe writing articles for them. the prosecution alleges this was a classic example of a the national enquirer, that the jury has already heard about , which revealed the secret plan for the national enquirer to kill negative stories about candidate trump and purchase them if necessary and to highlight and even invented negative stories about donald trump's opponent. karen mcdougal was not the last blockbuster trump story that keith davidson worked on. the next one was the stormy daniels story. the prosecutor asked him what the release of the access hollywood video of donald trump bragging about sexual assault

meant for the stormy daniels story and the value of it. "what impact, if any, to the release of the access hollywood tape have on interest in stormy daniels story, so far, as you were aware? so far as i'm aware, it had tremendous influence. can you explain that a little bit to the jury? before access hollywood tape, there is very little, if any interest, from what i understand. it was not until access hollywood that interest sort of reached a crescendo." keith davidson was then asked about his text messages after that story. "who sent the first text in this chain? >> it's from me. >> and what did you say? >> trump is f. >> you wrote out the whole word? >> i did. >> what prompted you to say that ? >> the access hollywood tape. >> how to dylan howard respond?

>> he responded with a, waved the white flag, it's over people, explanation. >> how did you interpret that? >> i think he was second in my opinion. >> based on the access hollywood tape? >> yes." eventually, the national enquirer back down keith davidson had to negotiate directly for hush money payments that were paid directly to stormy daniels. when they were struggling to finalize the deal that michael coll and was not ready to make those payments, he said, "what you expect me to do? my guy is in five states today or three or four or five different states today. is nothing i can do. i'm doing everything i can. >> when he said that "his guy" was in a certain number of states, who did you understand that to refer to? >> donald trump."

stomach leading off, -- we are leading off now, with analysis. >> adam, first of all, when i saw that the judge ruled on the contempt, i was very interested to see the transcript because i wanted to see what he would say about it before he issued his written opinion and it's half a page, it is stunning how quickly he did that. >> it was entirely offhand and he could not have announced it more cavalierly. it was housekeeping. he got around to the calendar, he got around to the sound system and then mentioned donald trump, you are found guilty of contempt of court

nine times over. it goes to his way that he has conducted himself throughout the arguments over this. he's taking his time, taking it apart, you might have noticed there were nine out of the 10 different alleged violations before him. he is carefully and quietly going through it, but it is smart. one thing in the written order that the judge imposed, he forced trump to take down the offending post, and gave him the deadline of 2:15, a time when the court always comes back from a lunch recess, setting up this possible standoff. trump complied and it showed that even though the judge is speaking softly and going carefully and deliberately, the messages coming through. >> so thursday, when they resume, we have these hearings about more of these posts. >> absolutely.

the judge issued a varied detailed opinion. it's not like he just had half a page, oh, i find you in contempt, there's a detailed decision that goes through each of the defense arguments and why the judge either agrees, which is why there was not a finding of contempt on one of 10, and disagreed on the others . it was very thoughtful and another thing is, to be sure everyone understands, this is a finding of criminal contempt. not civil, this is criminal contempt and the $1000 -- >> what's the difference? >> one is a civil judgment and it is there to cool ours -- coerce. the only penalty is not really called a penalty, is to get someone to do something. this is a punishment, whether was $1000, the maximum, or jail time, that is to punish the

person for their behavior, just the way, in a criminal felony, the sentence is to punish. this is criminal contempt and is a finding beyond a reasonable doubt and that is the standard that the judge applied, that the state had to meet. that is that the defendant, donald trump, new of the order and willfully violated it, and that was found by the judge nine times beyond a reasonable doubt. he is in criminal contempt. thursday, we find out whether he's in criminal contempt four more times and if the judge will do something different or if he will wait to see if there is a violation after it. >> is this finding by the judge something they can appeal? mac it is, but good luck. i do not think there is a leg to stand on but he could attempt. >> we will get a quick break and we will be back, right

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we are back. adam, what were the main points ? all we really had today was a direct examination by the prosecutor, of both karen mcdougal and stormy daniels's lawyer. what are the prosecution accomplish?

>> you highlighted some of the specific things that came out, it's 15 pages of text messages that keith davidson sent to dylan howard. they were friends for many years, and they sent a lot of messages and the theme was that this was for trump, the payoff to karen mcdougal was for trump, the payoff to stormy daniels was for trump, and there's a moment and you'll see, probably thursday, if this goes to cross examination, i expect trump's attorney will highlight a line that canine testimony, when he recalled the conversation he had of michael cohen saying, i will do it myself, referring to this payment to stormy daniels and the prosecutor asked, what did you understand him to mean when he said that, that he would not seek authority to consummate

the deal? he would waive authority. after that is where the context comes in. the prosecutor asked, "did you believe that michael cohen would be the ultimate source of the funding? -- never. even after he said i will just do it myself, where did you understand that money to be coming from? donald trump or some corporate affiliation thereof? " that was a key moment, a powerful moment and goes to what the prosecutors have been arguing in court, that this was not just michael cohen going rogue, this was a plan that everyone understood and that was what came in after a dramatic moment in testimony. >> the defense cross-examination will zoom in on that, in a big way. >> the defense has two, with respect to mr. dave and said,

he's talked about no direct conversations with donald trump, so everything is coming through someone else. the real issue is, the national enquirer basically said, because they talked to legal counsel, we cannot continue paying, we cannot do it we did with the doorman, we cannot do what we did with karen mcdougal, we need another bank. that was the problem for donald trump and michael collins because they had to come up with the money and the plan was to see if i could push it off until after the election and that was not working. keith davidson is like no, we need the money now, they knew their story was sort of worthless after the election. he keeps trying to put them off and put them off and ultimately, he does. we know he came up with the mental health. he had to take out an equity line and the jurors knew that

because they heard that from the prior witness. the real issue, at the end of the day, what if the defense argues that michael cohen was so loyal to donald trump he took out a $130,000 loan, without telling him, and he would not want to tell him, and that he would like to him and like to get reimbursed and then get reimbursed for much more, on the theory that he would pay income tax on it? it doesn't make sense as to why you wouldn't tell your boss when he is the ultimate beneficiary. your boss would be proud of what you had done, this isn't like you, like you had stolen money from him. the logic of the funds is really going to be challenged by the circumstances and the factual scenario that will be laid out. >> we do not know what the defense is going to be but one of the things that has and floated is the idea that donald trump wanted these stories to

go away, to protect his wife, protect his position with his wife. the testimony today had nothing to do with his wife, it had entirely to do with the presidential campaign and that's the reason the national enquirer will pay, is because of the campaign , and then also, the timing after access hollywood. they cannot tell the story. there is not a market. donald trump is not on the market to protect his wife, the day before the access hollywood story, but the day after it, donald trump suddenly needs to buy the story and end of the story. >> and when he's coming in with witnesses who have no skin in the game, through david pecker, a close friend of trump, through keith davidson, one of the lawyers involved in the deal, that is what gives it

this authority. they are laying the foundation from these witnesses, and to your point about the tape, they showed in this text message what a stick of dynamite that was to the campaign, that this explosion happened, where you read that quote, waving a white flag, it's over, and that is when, to your point, about how long this was being shopped around. it was as early as 2011 and they were talking about how this story that stormy daniels manager was trying to sell it by the middle of 2016, and all of a sudden, that is the event, the access hollywood tape, that causes commotion and that is exactly what prosecutors promised jurors in opening statements. >> the prosecutor has tomorrow off and then the resume direct examination thursday, which is

great for any trial lawyer to actually get that kind of a break with a witness because anything you regret about today, should've said this or that, you have your transcript, you go back thursday, and now you can deliver what you need. >> i think we are just toward the end of the story, which is, we have not gotten to the actual payment, and then, we know from the opening that there is this wonderful email the jury will have in front of them, were keith davidson, after donald trump wins, basically says look, this is what we've done. to your point, it makes it clear that this is about the campaign. i think that to the extent there is a wife defense, that is what prosecution hopes gets raised because it is a sort of sickening defense, and in insulting defense, to use your family when it's clear that

wasn't what was going on. >> it raises the question even more, where is the defendant's wife, right? why isn't she in the front row of the courtroom? thank you, very much. please stick with us for one more discussion because next, there's a new report that donald trump thinks he's a better lawyer than his lawyers and he is now turning against his defense counsel, next. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. let's get started. talk to a healthcare provider bill, where's your mask? i really tried sleeping with it, everybody. now i sleep with inspire.

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it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. wooooo! we are looking at the scene at columbia university, at this hour, where the police presence seems to be completed. nypd leaving the campus now. they used two buses to transport the people they arrest did for trespassing and disorderly conduct, occupying the building. two buses indicate it was far less than what was expect did.

it could be 50 or less. there is no indication from what we could be on camera of any violence breaking out with the police officers or the people being arrested, or the protesters around them. it seemed to be a peaceful procedure, the kind we have seen in many other protests, where the goal was to be arrested, for example, with jane fonda, last year. this has been much more dramatic and difficult to get through than that, but it does now seem to be complete. joining us now is the former chief of police in dekalb county, georgia and msnbc law enforcement analyst. you suggested earlier that this is the way you expected it to go based on your discussions with nypd and your experience with

these matters and it seems as though it has concluded about as quickly as you expected. >> yeah, and i think that we are thankful for that and certainly, there will be reports in terms of the events, but it all appears that, from what i am able to see from where i am, it was all peaceful. i think we can move forward and hopefully the university can move forward to resolve some of these complex issues that they still have to deal with, but it just appears that everything went well, tonight. i am certainly grateful for it and i'm sure that the city of new york is grateful for it, as well. i do have to tip my hat to the men and women of nypd, and tamir eric adams, as well, working closely with the university and their administration to find some

resolve and to do so without incident. >> it is always sad and shocking to see a police intervention like this on a college or university campus, and we can be glad if it has turned out to be as executed as peacefully as it appears. thank you for joining us. appreciate it. back to donald trump's problems with lawyers. shakespeare's line, "let's kill all the lawyers," from "henry vi," it expresses donald trump's feelings about the lawyers who are taking so much money from donald trump's contributors. in most cases, eventually disappointing trump did trump has privately expressed criticism of his lead criminal defense lawyer, todd blanche, which if the pattern holds, it means that he will, at some point, be fired and then attacked by donald trump for

the rest of his life. the times report quotes "he has a great that mr. blanche is not been following his instructions closely, and has been insufficiently aggressive. which of trump wanting to attack witnesses, attack with the former president sees as a hostile jury pool, and attack the judge, judge merchan." you could have told todd blanche it was going to go this way. >> yes, there is obviously precedent for that as people have joked, that maga stands for "make attorneys get attorneys," and there are a number of lawyers in trump world who have faced consequences and i have to say, as a lawyer, i am proud of the fact that the profession takes this seriously and obviously, it accords all of the due process rights in terms of making findings, but you are seeing actions, rudy giuliani,

john eastman, where there have been findings as to improprieties. the fallacy is that lawyers are retained and they are officers of the court. they do not do whatever a client wants. you might think that and it might be what you want, but it's foolish to think that's the case. that's not even what you want. donald trump should have learned from his case against e jean carroll, where he basically said, i can do this better, he didn't like the first results, which was $5 million, i can do this, his attorney leaves, and we know the results, which is another $85 million. you know, you may not like the result, but you are the person who committed the alleged crimes . the hand the lawyer is playing is one that you dealt.

this is one where one of the attributes that donald trump does not have a self reflection in thinking that he might have any responsibility for the situation he's in. >> thank you for joining us. coming up, rachel introduced you into one of the craziest republican senate candidates we are joined by that crazy candidate's opponent, wisconsin's senator, tammy baldwin. that is next.

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>> your vote will decide what century we live in. will we live in 1864? your vote is not just about the next four years. your vote is nothing less than an exercise in incredible intergenerational power that will live long after you. l powt will live long after you.

last night without planning to, without any coordination at all, rachel maddow delivered what turns out to be the perfect introduction of our next guest. >> he has succeeded in making national headlines as the republican senate candidate for wisconsin. that's not necessarily an easy thing to do but again, the problem is that he has made those headlines for things like this. >> if you are in a nursing home you only have five, six months life expectancy. almost nobody in a nursing home is at a point to vote. >> now, i am no political expert, but even someone who has never heard of the united states senate before can probably suss out that is probably not a great political strategy. old people should vote. old people in nursing homes, they should not be -- most

nursing home residents not it a point to vote. after that made headlines across wisconsin and across the country, he tried to make this all go away as a news story but did it again as if this was an episode of veep. quote, and recent days, mr. hovde iterated his comment that a large percentage of nursing home residents are not at a mental capacity to vote. when i said old people in nursing homes shouldn't be allowed to vote everybody thought that was so bad. let me clarify. what i meant was that a large percentage of old people in nursing homes shouldn't be allowed to vote because they don't have the mental capacity for it. there. is that better? >> joining us now, eric hovde's democratic opponent, tammy baldwin. senator, thank you for joining us tonight.

rachel some that one up rather neatly, i thought. >> yes. the last time i was on your show, i got to tell you the story of my own grandmother who broke her hip at age 90, went into a nursing home, and got the opportunity to cast a vote to send her granddaughter to the united states congress. it is such an insult to hear his disparaging words about seniors, and his disparaging words about so many others. you know, his insistence that we should repeal the affordable care act in its entirety. you know, when i was nine years old i had a serious childhood illness.

i was labeled with those terrifying words, pre-existing condition, like half of all americans, but because of the affordable care act, when we told insurance companies you can no longer discriminate because somebody has been sick in the past, we have millions now who are able to attain health insurance. eric hovde not only wants to repeal the affordable care act and its and cyrene, he wants to/medicare, raise the retirement age, all of which should concern not only seniors but all wisconsinites. remind viewers that when donald trump was last president, we came within one vote of losing the affordable care act. if eric hovde were to defeat me and donald trump were to be re- elected, we probably would not have the affordable care act anymore, and all the protections that it guarantees and so if your viewers want to help me fight back, please go to tammy baldwin.com and help me do that. >> hovde said he is opposed to

every single provision in the affordable care act. when he was asked about it, he was specifically asked, what about the provision that allows people to keep their kids in their policies until they are 26. he said no, i hate everything about it. >> you know, that was the provision i authored in the affordable care act when i was in the house of representatives on a panel that was writing the act, and i have been so heart warmed to see how many young people -- it used to be the demographic in our country with the least insurance, the exit from high school, go right into a job, that job probably doesn't offer health insurance so when you can stay on your parents health insurance until you can turn 26, it gives you a running start and provides healthcare to millions who would not otherwise have it and we have to fight to keep the affordable care act. we have to build upon it, frankly, as democrats have been, but we can't let somebody who wants to/away people's affordable healthcare anywhere near the floor of the united states senate. >> senator tammy baldwin, when i saw rachel presenting your opponent

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this is an epic story... ♪ any way you want it ♪ of cosmic proportions. ♪ that's the way you need it ♪ how far would you go for the one that you love? ♪ any way you want it ♪ do you want to make out? -yes. [ chuckling ]

and they're all coming? those who are still with us, yes. grandpa! what's this? your wings. light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly.

it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. wooooo! senator tammy baldwin gets tonight's